Peter’s Blog, August 8th — Alright, Controversy!!
I’m packing and getting ready for the big book launch over the next two weeks in SF and the Bay Area, so will keep this short. The schedule is listed below in my previous Peter’s Blog, if any of you can make it to any of the classes or book signings. There are still a few seats left for the classes but you’ll have to call the venues for more info.
But this week I think we’re going to have to address the controversy that emerged in the Comments section of my last posting, thanks to someone named Scott007 and a few other voices, including another Scott — Scott123. It’s actually kind of exciting — apparently, I’ve pissed a few people off and am not sure why but would sure like to find out what I did (if you aren’t up to speed, please check out the Comments thread in the recent Peter’s Blog — last time I checked there were 14 comments). So, what I’d like to do is open up the discussion here on this posting, via a new Comments section, the one on this posting, and ask any and all of you to chime in. If I’ve trashed NY pizza culture, as Scott123 accuses, or passed on misinformation about pizza methodology or dough science, let’s get it all on the table so we can clear it up. Scott(s), how about getting specific and make your case — I hear that 123 is a well respected pizza authority so maybe I have something to learn from you. None of us have a monopoly on the whole truth and Pizza Quest was created to be a forum for the sharing of our mutual pizza journeys and celebration of artisanship. I’m open to learn from you but also would like to know the actual specifics of where you think I went wrong, rather than generalized attacks. The only rule for this discussion is civility — I reserve the right to edit out ad hominum attacks, unnecessary language, and nasty language. But differences of opinion — sure, I’m okay with that. So, for those who want to play along, go ahead and express yourselves — but let’s do it respectfully, please.
I won’t be posting another Peter’s Blog till I return at the end of the month, but will try to join in the Comments section from the road if my i-Pad and local WiFi will allow it. In the meantime, let’s get to the heart of it — we’re on a search for the truth (or, perhaps, truths). Let the discussion begin….
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I don’t see how it could be possible for any beginning pizza maker to read your recipe section and come away with any other impression than this is a recipe for a truly great, authentic slice. The overwhelming sentiment was one of “Hey, you like NY pizza? I’ve got a wonderful recipe right here.” Your readers aren’t coming away from your book saying “this is Peter’s impression of a NY pizza,” they’re saying “this IS NY pizza.” When you add those impressions up, the impact is devastating.
Anybody and their brother can and does have a recipe for pizza. But when you, Peter Reinhart, publish a recipe, there’s an expectation that it’s founded in training. When you went to France, you didn’t just eat a lot of bread, and, based upon how the bread tasted, build your recipes. In France, you turned over rocks. You were a bloodhound with a scent. In New York, you ate pizza- at least, that’s how the recipe reads. There was, from this New Yorker’s perspective, no Gosselin type figure behind the formulas.
When Evelyne Slomon wrote “The Pizza Book: Everything There is to Know About the World’s Greatest Pie”, she trained with the legendary coal owners. She didn’t get everything right and her scope was incredibly coal-centric, but, by sitting down with these legends and picking their brains, she was able to extract all the elements that went into that particular style.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1258.msg38358.html#msg38358
“Gerry Lombardi told me how they made the pizza. He explained what type of flour they used, that the dough was very wet and soft and that the key was to let the dough rest at least over night before using it. Now, you must realize that none of these guys ever spoke in terms of formulas, recipes, hydration, fermentation, etc. For them it was a natural process that they’d been practicing for decades. They used their senses of touch, feel and sound along with their history to produce the results. “
Scott’s Top Ten Reasons Why American Pie’s NY Style Pizza Recipe Betrays NY Culture
10. Adding wine vinegar or lemon juice to the sauce
9. 6% oil in NY style dough
8. NY 4 hour dough exact same recipe as 2 day dough
7. 2.8% sugar in NY style dough
6. Parsley and thyme in NY style pizza sauce.
5. 2 tablespoons of garlic powder (tablespoons) or 10 cloves of garlic for one 28 oz. can puree
4. 14 oz. of water added to one 28 ounce can of tomato puree in sauce
3. No mention of bromate
2. ‘rolling out NY style dough to 1/4” thick’
1. 12 minute NY style bake time
Wine Vinegar/Lemon Juice
Doesn’t happen. Ever. There’s plenty of variations when it comes to sauce (with one or two places actually committing the crime of cooking the sauce), but vinegar or lemon juice, never.
Oil
Most pizzerias use oil. There’s some leeway when it comes to the amount of oil the average NY pizzeria has used/is using, but it’s no where near the 6% listed in your book.
Yeast/Fermentation
A high yeast dough that’s ready to bake in 4 hours will be, regardless of refrigeration, overproofed in 2 days. You will find lots of pizzerias with extra dough at the end of the night who will use it the next day, but you’ll never find someone using it on day 2.