Peter’s Blog, August 8th — Alright, Controversy!!
I’m packing and getting ready for the big book launch over the next two weeks in SF and the Bay Area, so will keep this short. The schedule is listed below in my previous Peter’s Blog, if any of you can make it to any of the classes or book signings. There are still a few seats left for the classes but you’ll have to call the venues for more info.
But this week I think we’re going to have to address the controversy that emerged in the Comments section of my last posting, thanks to someone named Scott007 and a few other voices, including another Scott — Scott123. It’s actually kind of exciting — apparently, I’ve pissed a few people off and am not sure why but would sure like to find out what I did (if you aren’t up to speed, please check out the Comments thread in the recent Peter’s Blog — last time I checked there were 14 comments). So, what I’d like to do is open up the discussion here on this posting, via a new Comments section, the one on this posting, and ask any and all of you to chime in. If I’ve trashed NY pizza culture, as Scott123 accuses, or passed on misinformation about pizza methodology or dough science, let’s get it all on the table so we can clear it up. Scott(s), how about getting specific and make your case — I hear that 123 is a well respected pizza authority so maybe I have something to learn from you. None of us have a monopoly on the whole truth and Pizza Quest was created to be a forum for the sharing of our mutual pizza journeys and celebration of artisanship. I’m open to learn from you but also would like to know the actual specifics of where you think I went wrong, rather than generalized attacks. The only rule for this discussion is civility — I reserve the right to edit out ad hominum attacks, unnecessary language, and nasty language. But differences of opinion — sure, I’m okay with that. So, for those who want to play along, go ahead and express yourselves — but let’s do it respectfully, please.
I won’t be posting another Peter’s Blog till I return at the end of the month, but will try to join in the Comments section from the road if my i-Pad and local WiFi will allow it. In the meantime, let’s get to the heart of it — we’re on a search for the truth (or, perhaps, truths). Let the discussion begin….
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Seriously, though, you know the old cliche about not saying anything if you don’t have anything nice to say? Well, that kind of pleasantry has no place in NY pizza. Discussing the venerated slice without at least trying to be a little Bourdainian- to me, that’s sacrilege in itself. Ray’s is pure evil- probably more evil, in my mind, than Dominos. Dominos did their damage out in the ‘burbs. Ray’s is right smack dab in the middle of Mecca, relieving themselves on the Kaaba. Complete and utter contempt for non Prince st. Ray’s is the cornerstone of NY style pizza.
As far as your other stops go… well, DiFara is a wonderful theme park for tourists seeking the NY pizza experience, but it’s far from the best NY has to offer. With it’s vintage oven, it has respectable bake times, but the 1-2 hour fermentation isn’t sufficient to get any flavor from the wheat. NY pizza guys aren’t famous for their knowledge of dough science, but 1-2 hours is ridiculous.
Prince St. Ray’s (now no longer) is a little like Joe’s. It was respectable. Better than most of what you find in the area, but still a very much defiled post 1995 pie. Joe’s especially. I wouldn’t call Joe’s a shell of what it once was, but those pies in the 90s would send my heart soaring.
Bottom line, I sincerely believe you talked to the wrong people. Instead of conversing with intelligent peers that say ‘these’ and ‘those’ you should have ventured into the NY’s underbelly and sought out those that say ‘dese’ and ‘dose.’ Dose are the people that would have smacked you upside the head for even thinking about going to a midtown Rays. Dose are the people that would tell you that pizza just ain’t what it use to be.
There’s this knee jerk propensity, when, someone harkens back to the ‘good old days,’ to dismiss it as life being better when you’re young. Life is generally better when you’re young, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that sometimes when people reference the ‘good old days,’ those days weren’t actually better. Other than Joe’s and Ray’s on Prince, Manhattan has pretty much always been a pizza wasteland, so I can’t really predict what your average Manhattanite might have told you back in 2003, but I’d bet you that 50 out of 100 older Brooklynites or New Jerseyans would be screaming just as loud as I am about the then state of the slice. There was a story there. A story that your hundreds of thousands of readers needed to hear. A story staring you dead in the face with your Mama’s pizza experience.
‘Mama’ Mia
Much like New Haven coal style is really not that different from NY coal, Philadelphia, other than the occasional decision to go cheese first, is an apple that didn’t fall from the NY slice tree. While I’m happy that you were able to get to the bottom of your own personal mystery (and earn a few gloating rights with your brother 😉 ), there was a collective 15 million person mystery that you were overlooking. Mama’s history mirrors all of NY- a single grain of sand on an entire beach of lost dreams. One sniffle in a far greater pandemic- a pandemic that a teacher of your stature should have been aware of.
If the bread in France was dying a slow, tortuous 10 year death, believe me, you’d know about it. And NY pizza was dying. You saw, firsthand, the kind of compromises that pizzeria owners took that lead to a decline in quality. Was it that implausible for Mama’s compromise to be the tip of a regional, thousand compromise iceberg? The author of the pre-eminent 20th and 21st century book on pizza should have been able to make that connection.
Neapolitan Due Diligence
Regardless of the fact that you missed out on all the truly great NY pizzerias, NY is no less deserving of the same reverence that American Pie awards Phoenix, New Haven and Naples.